Redfin Hate Speech at a 2nd Grade Level
May 26th, 2007 Deeper Thoughts
I’m obviously am not a Redfin cheer leader. I think it does have good and bad points about it and I try to cover both view points. I’m not convinced it will ever be profitable and will fail, though I think aspects of it will be absorbed into the industry as a whole.
Anyways…
I’ve seen this video popping up a few places on the RE.net today. A supposed satire on the 60 Minutes Redfin piece. Honestly it’s stomach churning bad. Watch it at your peril, though I warn you there is no payoff. It’s 6 minutes of your life you’ll never get back.
I have two thoughts after watching this video.
1. Do they have any proof that with comparable homes in the $300–350,000 range, a Redfin sold house will sell for $50,000 less than a home sold by a traditional brokerage?
2. Do they have any sources of complaints or otherwise unhappy Redfin clients? If they don’t, why suggest that Redfin clients are going to be unhappy?
Satire requires a grounding in the truth to work as a device. It’s not satire if you are making stuff up, thats called propaganda.
I’m told – and I believe this did happen – that after the 60 Minutes episode a number of realtors called the Redfin offices and “vented anger” at a combination of whoever answered the phones and by asking for individual agents by name. And by “venting anger” please understand I’m being exceptionally polite.
I believe those phone calls and his video are motivated by the same thing.
Hate.
And this video is hate speech.
Just mentally replace the word “Redfin” with say “Jewish” or “Black” and tell me it’s not.
May 27th, 2007 at 2:21 am
OK, well, mentally replace “John Lockwood” with “Canary” and see if I don’t sprout feathers.
I didn’t watch it, though. That whole “peril” thing scared me off.
On the visible spectrum of “Kris Berg contra Redfin” versus “Athol Kay why can’t we all get along”, I fall somewhere past the ultaviolet, i.e., I don’t care about other peoples’ content.
Mine’s what sells. Or not. The rest is gossip.
By the way, what’s up with this long weekend nerd crap? Shouldn’t we both be at a barbecue somewhere, albeit at different coasts?
May 27th, 2007 at 8:05 am
It’s not a case of “can’t we all get along”, it’s a case of if you’re going to debate something, actually debate it, don’t make something up and smack that down and claim victory.
Kris Berg is in a different level altogether, she actually complains about stuff that really happens and does it well.
I’m pro-fair trial is all.
and meh… I’m a nerd.
May 27th, 2007 at 2:02 pm
Hey Athol,
Everyone at Redfin has actually taken the video in good stride. Not that we agree with it, but its always good to laugh at yourself every so often. Kelly, the Redfin agent interviewed on 60 Minutes, got the biggest kick out of it.
Even though I wasn’t on 60 Minutes, I like to think of myself as the guy who eats the SPAM
~Trev
May 27th, 2007 at 3:46 pm
Apparently I ate the wrong thing for breakfast as nobody seems to care…
SPAM huh Trevor… >:->
May 27th, 2007 at 5:15 pm
Pro fair trial? My understanding is that NAR offered several times to be included in the 60 minutes epsisode, and we were denied access. CBS made something up, interviewed one side, smacked it down, and claimed victory.
Under the circumstances I would expect strong feelings among those Realtors who rightly feel the unwelcome butt-tickle of a hand on their wallets. I certainly have more sympathy for an attitude that wishes to remove the hand by whatever means ncessessary than I do for the efforts of collaborators to ensure that the cutpurse’s feelings are spared the rhetorical inconvenience of the victim’s scream.
May 27th, 2007 at 6:02 pm
Oh I agree that the entire 60 Minutes deal was a set up quite lacking in honest inquiry. Then again so was this video. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
The way to fight back against the errors of the 60 Minutes clip is to rebut the errors. Not merely make up bullshit and put it on YouTube.
As to unwelcome butt-tickles… I heard more complaining in the office about our THREE layers of Realtor dues, our MLS fees, license renewal fees and Errors and Omissions Insurance all arriving in May together than anything Redfin did.
May 27th, 2007 at 7:00 pm
Hi guys I thought I had better pipe in here. Firstly, I want to make sure that everyone understands that neither Point2 or anyone at Point2 (that I know of at least) has anything against Redfin or any discount broker or alternative business model. In fact, I respect Glen Kelman and his team at Redfin. We simply thought that 60 Minutes did a less then fair job of representing traditional real estate. Our 16 Minutes Spoof was just that, a spoof. It wasn’t intended to make a compelling case against any business model but was simply intended to provide a laugh and poke a little fun at 60 Minutes reporting. Our video is entirely more Saturday Night Live than trying to get any serious point across.
That said, from my point of view traditional real estate agents are unfarily getting the short end of the publicity stick. Overtly or not, alterative models and the media seem to be suggesting that traditional real estate agents are not providing a compelling value proposition to consumers. They are also suggesting, overtly or not, that the “traditional real estate industry” is trying to unfairly shut them down by discriminating against them. It also seems that everyone from the DOJ, FTC through to the media and 60 minutes is dying to jump all over “organized real estate” and blame it for any failures of alternative models. I have a couple of problems with this. Firstly, it simply is not true that there is some form of organized systematic descrimination against discount and alternative models. These models have been around, with varying degrees of success, for decades. Secondly, most professionals in this industry are proud of the value proposition they provide consumers and have no problem competing in the field against any of these alternative models. As with most things in life, you get what you pay for.
Brendan King
Point2 Realty
Chief Operating Officer
http://www.Point2.com
May 27th, 2007 at 8:30 pm
Hey everyone, Les Stool here. So as you can see we had some fun last Thursday and put together this little spoof on YouTube called 16 Minutes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZzbrftTF0g . We thought we’d take a shot at the CBS 60 Minutes report on May 13th called “6 Percent†http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtml?id=2796105n because of what we felt was poor reporting. We’re not saying that the Real Estate Profession doesn’t need an overhaul, nor are we defending 6% commissions, but we felt this news report was very misleading. If you haven’t already seen it, please watch or read the original CBS 60 Minute version, at least for the first 5 minutes or so.
Let’s start with Lehrer Willis and his fiancée Bridgette Takeuchi who stated that they saved $26,000 by using Redfin instead of a traditional real estate agent. Well they can only say that if they follow it up with: “that is assuming a traditional professional real estate agent would not have sold our home for moreâ€. We at Point2 strongly believe that a true professional real estate agent most likely would have sold their home for more, after all that’s what they do for a living. We know Redfin will argue that they are license real estate agents, but the fact of the matter is they leave most everything up to the seller other than the paper work, the seller is even required to do their own open houses. We get a chuckle out of people like Morgan Brown from Blown Mortgage who defends discounters like Redfin who get their sellers to do their own open houses, but cuts down our spoof video saying that we should leave comedy to those who make it their profession. Well Morgan, don’t you think the same should be applied to selling homes, should that not be left to professionals as well?
Next there is Willis and Takeuchi’s agent, Kelly Engel, who used to be a traditional agent but went to Redfin because she was making too much money. In her own words: “…I would make $12,000 for four hours of work. And I thought this cannot keep going on like this. Someone, I felt like I was going to get caught! You know, someone’s going to see that this is happening….†Come on, of course once and while you catch a break and get an easy one. But really, for CBS to actually think that people are going to buy that, they should be making movies not news.
Then there is Glenn Kelman, president and CEO of Redfin who says: “Real estate, by far, is the most screwed up industry in America….†THE MOST SCREWED UP INDUSTRY IN AMERICA? Hmmm, you have to think he thought that one out before he said it, don’t you? By his own admission the value of real estate in the United States has quadrupled in the last 25 years. That means that the most valuable asset that most people own has increased in value by over 400% in that period. Sounds like a pretty healthy industry to us. You know at least he could have prefaced it with “next to public company accounting…â€, then some of us might have given him credit for at the very least given that statement a couple seconds of forethought.
Then Glenn stated: “…and we feel like things that Amazon or eBay or Yahoo have done of other industries, we can do for the real estate industry.†Well Glenn, those companies raised many hundreds of millions of dollars in the late 90’s, and out of the three of them both Yahoo and eBay have for many years now tried to get a piece of the real estate pie, but for the most part to no avail. To try to compare Redfin to those companies and then say that “we can do for the real estate industry†what both Yahoo and eBay have failed to do, is not only very ambitious, but we feel it’s misleading.
Real estate is a complex capital asset, which has a complex sales process and a complex transfer of ownership. That being said, we believe that there will always be the need for the real estate professional. At the same time we will admit that going forward the consumer is going to demand and get, a lot more from their real estate professional.
Catch you all on the next 16 Minutes!
Â
 [Note: two exrememly long links in this comment broke formatting in the comment box, I edited them into a better hypertext links. Please use tinyurl or format better links, I don’t have time to edit HTML in comments.  Athol]
May 27th, 2007 at 8:54 pm
Hi Brendan, thanks for your comment. And really I do get that full service real estate is constantly under pressure.
My point is if the Redfin Model and 60 Minutes were as bad as suggested (and I’m 50/50 on Redfin and I thought the segment was bullshit) then why not attack that rather than make stuff up?
Why not do a “Making Of” video…
Show a semi-endless loop of 60 Minutes interviewing agent after agent until they finally get one that looks like a moron for the traditional side.
Why not show a long 60 Minutes interview session with NAR, but then have the finished clip being having a “we asked for a response from NAR, but they declined to comment”
Why not have the interview with Glenn Kelman where he explains ALL the ins and outs of Redfin pricing etc with the interviewer making “cut, cut” motions and nodding to someone off camera.
Why not have an intern hand the interviewer a pile of papers and say “here’s all the data you wanted on XYZ” when the interviewer just said “there’s no way of checking into XYZ”.
Why not have a scene where all the actual Redfin staff are removed and played by actors because they aren’t viewed as attractive enough by the producer.
Why not have Glenn filmed trying to drive to work in a worn out heap breaking down in his driveway, finally giving up and riding to work on a bike and having the 60 Minutes team decide if that “works” or not.
Why not have a scene where Redfin’s phones are “running hot” and have the camera accidently catch that 60 Minutes crew members are the ones calling.
i.e. If the complaint is that it was all staged bullshit, do a satire on that.
May 28th, 2007 at 8:25 am
>>We at Point2 strongly believe that a true professional real estate agent most likely would have sold their home for more.
I’m assuming that isn’t an official Point2 statement, but lets take it at face value.
Wouldn’t it be enormously damaging to Redfin if you could actually prove that statement.
May 28th, 2007 at 12:13 pm
[…] 16 Minutes & Redpin By: Les Stool Monday, May 28, 2007 1:51 PM Hello everyone, Les Stool here! As you probably have already seen, we had some fun last Thursday and put together a little spoof on YouTube called 16 Minutes. As you can imagine there is a lot of talk about this video and the original CBS production. As the Point2 NLS community we have an opportunity to work together to set matters straight when others mislead the public about the value proposition that skilled real estate professionals bring to consumers. We decided to take a shot at the CBS 60 Minutes report on May 13th called “6 Percent†because of what we felt was poor reporting. We’re not saying that the Real Estate Profession doesn’t need an overhaul, nor are we defending 6% commissions, but we felt this news report was very misleading. If you haven’t already seen it, please watch or read the original CBS 60 Minute version, at least for the first 5 minutes or so. Let’s start with Lehrer Willis and his fiancée Bridgette Takeuchi who stated that they saved $26,000 by using Redfin instead of a traditional real estate agent. Well they can only say that if they follow it up with: “that is assuming a traditional professional real estate agent would not have sold our home for moreâ€. We at Point2 strongly believe that a true professional real estate agent most likely would have sold their home for more, after all that’s what they do for a living. We know Redfin will argue that they are license real estate agents, but the fact of the matter is they leave most everything up to the seller other than the paper work, the seller is even required to do their own open houses. We get a chuckle out of people like Morgan Brown from Blown Mortgage who defends discounters like Redfin who get their sellers to do their own open houses, but cuts down our spoof video saying that we should leave comedy to those who make it their profession. Well Morgan, don’t you think the same should be applied to selling homes, should that not be left to professionals as well? Next there is Willis and Takeuchi’s agent, Kelly Engel, who used to be a traditional agent but went to Redfin because she was making too much money. In her own words: “…I would make $12,000 for four hours of work. And I thought this cannot keep going on like this. Someone, I felt like I was going to get caught! You know, someone’s going to see that this is happening….†Come on, of course once and while you catch a break and get an easy one. But really, for CBS to actually think that people are going to buy that, they should be making movies not news. Then there is Glenn Kelman, president and CEO of Redfin who says: “Real estate, by far, is the most screwed up industry in America….†THE MOST SCREWED UP INDUSTRY IN AMERICA? Hmmm, you have to think he thought that one out before he said it, don’t you? By his own admission the value of real estate in the United States has quadrupled in the last 25 years. That means that the most valuable asset that most people own has increased in value by over 400% in that period. Sounds like a pretty healthy industry to us. You know at least he could have prefaced it with “next to public company accounting…â€, then some of us might have given him credit for at the very least given that statement a couple seconds of forethought. Then Glenn stated: “…and we feel like things that Amazon or eBay or Yahoo have done of other industries, we can do for the real estate industry.†Well Glenn, those companies raised many hundreds of millions of dollars in the late 90’s, and out of the three of them both Yahoo and eBay have for many years now tried to get a piece of the real estate pie, but for the most part to no avail. To try to compare Redfin to those companies and then say that “we can do for the real estate industry†what both Yahoo and eBay have failed to do, is not only very ambitious, but we feel it’s misleading. Real estate is a complex capital asset, which has a complex sales process and a complex transfer of ownership. That being said, we believe that there will always be the need for the real estate professional. At the same time we will admit that going forward the consumer is going to demand and get, a lot more from their real estate professional. Now here are some of the places you will find discussions about our spoof video. Please feel free to jump into any of them and put some good words in for your profession. InmanBlog Point2 jumps into the 60 minutes fray with Redpin and Leslie Stool Tired of Redfin and 60 Minutes Blown Mortgage Redfin Hate Speech at a 2nd Grade Level << Read More at Reliberation.com […]
May 28th, 2007 at 12:31 pm
Nothing makes a case like a good stern cut and pasting.
May 28th, 2007 at 2:38 pm
Athol,
I agree with your points. The 16 Minutes piece just sucked and it makes the full-service RE industry look like they don’t have anything to offer other than the tired lines that are always trotted out. Like you said, if there were substantial data on FSBO or discount sale price vs. full-service sales price by market then the argument would be a lot stronger.
If full-service Realtors are getting drug through the PR wringer than perhaps the Realtors should do a better job of promoting themselves. Why waste time putting together boring, unfunny videos that make us look like insecure teenagers slamming the new kid? Why not spend that time educating the public and improving the offering and the understanding of the value of full-service?
May 28th, 2007 at 4:47 pm
Athol, I think it’s time that you produced a video. You have some damned good ideas there.
May 28th, 2007 at 5:03 pm
Hey Athol -
Try this plug in:
http://www.village-idiot.org/archives/2006/06/29/wp-chunk/
It automatically shortens URLs so they don’t break comments. With it you don’t have to rely on others to know to use TinyURL nor do you have to edit long ones. It takes care of everything behind the scenes…
I thought P2s video was funny. Your suggestions in comment #9 would be funny too. I guess I don’t see any ulterior motive behind P2’s video. Some find it hilarious, some don’t. That holds true for 99% of the stuff on YouTube. I imagine the PETA folks see absolutely zero humor in your snake vs. rabbit video….
May 28th, 2007 at 11:17 pm
I’ll try it Jay.
Apparently I am the most senstive person in the world on this issue. The general message I’m getting from the comments is that I’ve over reacted, so I’m just going to back off this. It’s not like I’m getting paid to care.
May 28th, 2007 at 11:24 pm
And comment 13 and 14 were in first time commentor moderation before I posted comment 16.
Now I’m really confused… :-/
May 29th, 2007 at 4:39 am
“Now I’m really confused… :-/”
It’s a pretty polarizing thing. Leads to much confusion. Don’t try to figure it out or your head may explode.
May 29th, 2007 at 5:40 am
Yes it is polarizing, that much is true.
May 29th, 2007 at 8:47 am
No, two wrongs don’t make a right. Two wrongs however do make a fair trial. QED.
But the real Q I was trying to D was the twenty comments — it’s always easier to complain about someone beating you or stand up for someone beating you than it is to actually go out and win yourself.